Matt M + Me : It started with Risk
Matt stops by for an art hang and chat, but we end up chatting on the couch, respectively tired out from the day. From the far end of the couch, Matt agrees to:
1) Be a speaker at Nerd Nite next month
2) Allow me to record our conversation so I can experiment with audio.
I rewarded him with a serving of stew.
Thanks for being open to both of the above Matt!
Transcription with Otter AI - It's not quite there. It's possibly not as correct as it could be because when we recorded it, we were far apart on opposite ends of the couch with my phone resting tilted on my belly.
Most of the time, Speaker 1 is Matt and Speaker 2 is me. Otter AI couldn't figure out the speakers for quite a lot of the dialogue and definitely missed or mistranslated words.
Speaker 1 0:00
Was suggesting it would be risk reward, like people in spawn for taking a lot of risk, specifically in the back country, doing adventure sport. I'm curious why, why we as humans take these risks, and what if the reward is equivalent to the risk?
Speaker 2 0:18
Yeah, and so you're talking about outdoor stuff, right? Like you're talking about specific outdoor stuff. And I'm curious about, I think what I said was, I think I was thinking about the different kinds of risk. There's like physical risk, there's the I guess the physical risk has emotional risk too. There's emotional risk. But that was also talking about logistical risks. I guess they're all emotional though. Risk is emotional
Speaker 1 0:52
risk. Yeah, I think supposedly, sure this is risk in all those different categories, but because we're in Squamish, I think it'd be fun to have a talk that's relevant here. Okay, the emotional risk would apply everywhere that's trying to be equal, equally. Okay, but here, like the kayaking or climbing rope access avalanche, there's just a ton of really interesting risk that is specific to this environment that people are partaking in, often more than elsewhere. But I'm curious if, why? Why are you doing it? What does it do to people, or the people here, these risk takers in this environment? Does it create a different environment here? Do you take risks? Everyone takes risks. What kind of risks do you take? Regarding physical risks? I went on, no,
Speaker 2 1:38
just in general, what's your biggest risks that you take in life, just generally driving. Do you still consider it a risk? Like every time you drive,
Speaker 1 1:50
I try and consider it a bigger risk than I perceive it to be. It's probably responsible. Yeah, it's because we do it so often. I think it comes across as like, commonplace. We forget how risky it is. But without doing like, a ton of deep thought on this topic, first thing comes to mind is probably driving as the riskiest thing I do. And I do it often, okay? And I do it quickly. Sometimes I do, yeah, my truck is like lighter in the back. Of course, I just come around a corner on the highway the other day, raining, pouring rain, but the back lost traction. And luckily, it's got, you know, new truck, it's got all the fancy sensors and regain traction abs, all kicks in, but easily could have just spun around a few times, hit the barrier and rolled off into a cliff.
Unknown Speaker 2:42
Okay, so if
Unknown Speaker 2:44
you consider that your biggest risk, why do you do it?
Speaker 1 2:49
Well, for one, it's really convenient, but also it's poorly perceived risk. And again, that's why I think there's an interesting topic here to talk about risk in Squamish, because I don't think humans are good at assessing risk and also assessing the reward. So, yeah, we could hire like a professional taxi driver or buy a Tesla or, you know, why would
Speaker 2 3:12
you consider someone else driving you less risky than you driving a professional driver? Do you trust professionals? Yes, you do. Yeah, you're so trusting. I mean, we're there's no direction that's okay. This is just like a extreme, conscious conversation between two people.
Unknown Speaker 3:36
Does risk require some trust?
Unknown Speaker 3:42
Does risk require trust?
Speaker 2 3:44
Well, okay, when you take risk, do you need to trust? Like, imagine aids like, trust in your decision, trust in yourself in some way, or trust in something like, to make the decision to make the active decision to take a to take a risk, you have to make an action, active decision to take a risk, otherwise you don't perceive it as a risk. Risk is a perception.
Speaker 1 4:04
No, no, I don't think so. You don't think risk is a perception. Well, I mean, everything is a perception. But even if you don't perceive it as a risk, someone else could, yes, it's being perceived
Speaker 2 4:13
somewhere, okay, but for you to perceive it as a risk, or for it to be
Speaker 1 4:18
risk, you could do something that you think is safe, and everyone in the room thinks is super risky. So you Is it risky? Well, you would take the average. I think
Unknown Speaker 4:27
you think so. So you think the truth is of the average. This
Speaker 2 4:32
is getting totally I don't mind where this is going, but that is the truth. It's like, is the truth of the average, or is the truth is that that there's multiple truths, that everyone has their truth, that you assess what? Because I don't, personally, I don't think anyone really understands truth, like there's always a possibility even so what.
Speaker 1 4:52
But I like this concept of truth, I still want to maybe do a talk about, yeah, I mean, this is obviously not your time. Like having a little bit of consistency, but, yeah, that's a good maybe I'll do a talk on that truth, fascinating topic. I when I traveled in New Zealand, for some reason I will, like, I was reading these philosophy books, and then the whole trip in New Zealand became this weird, like philosophical exploration. Was hitchhiking around all the time on my own and just had a backpack full of philosophy books. And one that comes to mind was like Rene Descartes meditations. Rene Descartes and his meditation is basically finding truth in the world. And he suggests that the there's only one truth. Everything else we're uncertain about. Everything else
Unknown Speaker 5:46
is a perception. Yeah, the car is all about that.
Speaker 1 5:48
Yeah, so one truth is math. Math is the only truth. Ah, one plus one is always one. There's no it's not objective. Objective. It's not subjective.
Speaker 2 6:01
I It's also a universal language.
Speaker 1 6:05
It's like, it's like, it's the only truth, nothing else. In all of his observations over like 10 years of meditation, nothing else is true, he makes a statement, something like,
Unknown Speaker 6:18
what is his famous quote, the
Unknown Speaker 6:21
blank slate ready to go you.
Speaker 1 6:27
I think, therefore I am. I think therefore I am. But others have since claimed like, yeah, that's his truth. But it's because it's actually not true. You could think, well, it proved that you are, well, okay, this actually exists,
Speaker 2 6:43
but that that also can be interpreted in so many different ways. That quote,
Unknown Speaker 6:46
but he's talking about truth, right?
Speaker 1 6:50
He goes right back to, like the I'm thinking about everything and God, and is there just, is any of this real? No, thinking about the only thing he believes is math. Nothing else is true, huh?
Speaker 2 7:01
I understand what he's saying. Like, I don't. I haven't thought enough about math as a universal truth. And I can, I can instinct is, like, it was like, Yeah, that makes sense.
Unknown Speaker 7:13
Though there's, I think more
Speaker 2 7:17
Yeah, something would think of it more about, but I do. I have thought that math is a universal language. There's a universal understanding, or, you know, understanding.
Speaker 1 7:27
You could grow up in any part of the world with any type of parents, with any belief structure, any religion, any language, and your math is the same as my math prescribing that it's not
Speaker 2 7:39
perception, yeah, and we don't even need the link, like, the symbols of math to be the same, right? Like, it doesn't even mean, like, let's say simple, yeah, that part's the language, I guess, is a human it is actually one of the most common. It's a common language among most people. Is math. But I guess, like, you know, you can, I could give you one pebble and then I give you another pebble. And universally, we understand whatever two, the perception of two appears in front of you like. And if those pebbles were pieces of meat or food, we really understand that, like in math, in that way, math is intrinsic. In those two or certain types of math is intrinsic. I guess the more complex math, I wonder if it is intrinsic to us. We just haven't we just don't understand it, because when we gage something, we're doing math another way physical, like physics and
Speaker 1 8:37
math just came to mind in the big picture of things is observing, like, as we zoom into something like, like, what is it called the Nano, nano technology, I don't know. Like, whenever we're observing the very small, we get to a point where it's just like, two pieces of data, yeah, like quarks, yeah. And really, all there is, is ones and zeros. Yeah, everything is on and off, ones and zeros, which is kind of weird. If math is the only truth and everything comes down to one and zeros, it feels like we're just in a program. The whole thing
Unknown Speaker 9:13
is just that's like the movies I know, like The Matrix.
Speaker 2 9:17
There's office movies besides the matrix, that we always refer to the matrix. Well, I would like to watch the other ones, if you could remind me. Yeah. I mean, I have some time on my hands, you know, looking shit up, perfect. I'll make this into a post and look at the movies, you know, add the references, like, what's gonna do not, not be able to use my leg has definitely given this space of time to just, I don't know, explore things. I just have time to explore things, not run around.
Speaker 1 9:46
I'll start by your leg. So prior to the surgery, I feel like you also had time, but you were directing it differently because you were more, yeah, and you still had maybe similar amount of time.
Speaker 2 10:00
Yeah, like I did absolutely, I think this was a bit of a forced rest. I was also in such a like, you know, there's a time before my surgery, which is just since I was born, yes. And then there is the direct the recent time, which I would say, you know, years or months, or whatever, I think, what I realized it's also to use that time for, like, to be able to use that time a certain way, I also had to be in certain state of mind. I couldn't use my time the way I was using right now, because I was in a very different state of mind. I was unwell. I was very I was sick. And, you know, what does a wounded animal do? Its licks its wounds, it can't focus on anything else. Or a trapped animal like, you know, see a fox in a bear trap or something, or a trap, like, it's not thinking about other things. It's trying to get the trap. And I think that's what I felt like I was doing. The drugs from the surgery were, yeah, there was, like the shittiness of like, the puking, the bodily my head was spinning, but it also like, I'm pretty I am in touch my body. So I know I'm not in touch with my body, but I can watch the drugs shut down parts of my brain. I know. I don't know if you felt that,
Speaker 1 11:27
yeah, I suppose, yeah. But yeah, it's nice to be aware, just being aware of anything.
Speaker 2 11:33
Yeah. Feel like it could shut down my inhibitions. It was like, and the lights went off here and here and here and here, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 11:42
but I mean, that's not bad personally, knowing it's
Speaker 2 11:44
temporary, yeah, that keeps temporary, aware of it and yeah,
Speaker 1 11:50
speak if that's the case, maybe speak differently, be more cautious.
Unknown Speaker 11:56
But yeah, I mean
Unknown Speaker 11:58
fixing, speaking of risk,
Speaker 2 12:03
going under consciousness. No, I'm not saying sleeping,
Speaker 1 12:08
but like, even when you have the surgery, yeah, that's a risk, right? That was scary. That was the first time I also this surgery. Yeah, that was the thing I was most afraid because you do sign a wave or something like, you could die. It's a normal surgery. You never know things happen. Then I'm like, I remember, like, just before the surgery, sending a text to my parents or some someone, I think I did this, if not, it was a thought, and I should have, but I want, I said that to my text from memory, saying, like, love you, you know, going into surgery, and it was a moment of thinking that might be the last text I ever sent my parents.
Speaker 2 12:46
Yeah, I think there's a lot of that, even driving, flying sometimes, you know,
Speaker 3 12:52
driving, yeah, I go to work. I mean, I work close every time I drive to Vancouver, I don't
Speaker 2 12:58
send my mom, okay, maybe not. I mean, I put the drive in because you call it risk. No, I know.
Speaker 1 13:03
I do. I'm just observing that. And like, the surgery probably has a number. Like, how many people die from collarbone surgery? Probably pretty low.
Speaker 2 13:12
So as long as the felt scary, yeah, going. I mean, as an animal, just like as a creature, as a living animal, to be unconscious
Unknown Speaker 13:24
is I'm not afraid to actually do it every day.
Speaker 2 13:27
That's not the same. Why? Because conscious. Because sleeping, you wake up.
Unknown Speaker 13:31
Well, you woke up from your surgery.
Unknown Speaker 13:35
You think you're still in surgery. There's
Speaker 2 13:37
a part where in sleep, it's a different you're not. I don't know the medical but it's like, you know, in surgery, if I was sleeping, if you were sleeping in someone's operating, you'd be fucking awake.
Unknown Speaker 13:52
You know me, it's cutting off consciousness
Speaker 1 13:56
like to you, I perceive them very similarly. I fall asleep. I'm laying in bed. Someone could walk in my house, you know, there could be a clown, a dinosaur, and then they're quiet and they leave. I'd have no idea I am not here in this world while I'm sleeping. So from just like the surgery, really, I was out, they were both different for you. I mean, there's a moment of waking up in a different room. That's weird, but I also had that experience so young, maybe drinking, and you fall asleep and you woke up and you're like, how did I get here?
Speaker 2 14:32
I'm a dreamer. I actually dream a lot. So for me, the text, yeah, I have different dreams, and the textures of my dreams change too. So even dream to dream, I'm in different kinds of lucid state. Like I have lucid dreams too, and I have processing dreams, and then have like, deep trauma dreams, like I have a different or, then there's memory, there's like, different types of dreams. So for me, going into that kind of unconsciousness, of being drugged, feels different. And then I've also have sometimes I realized recently, like in last while, I have a fainting response to, instead of, like, fight, flight, sometimes I'll faint. And it's very specific. It looks like I'm sleeping, but I'm not, and all of them feel different. Like, the only way I can say is they have a different texture, like, you know, and so going under drugs, for me, doesn't feel the same as sleeping. If has a different texture, it has a like, there's my dream world is actually pretty active. Maybe my shutdown of from drugs is like system shut down.
Unknown Speaker 15:37
Yeah. No, they are different. I agree,
Speaker 1 15:40
but I don't imagine I dream much if I do not remember it. So in that sense, rarely in the morning, if I'm half asleep or half awake, I might remember something briefly and then generally Forget it within 20 minutes.
Speaker 2 15:58
Okay, so you don't really think about your dreams last night, had a dream and I I knew, and I can understand what it was about. It's like a fear dream, and it's come in different versions, like I have another dream that's been recurring, that's been really personal, that really sucks, but then the dream last night was not the same dream, but it was in the same vein. And so there's, like, a thematic telling me what my like subconscious is. Sometimes I get dreams I was just literally processing the day, and I can tell there's, oh, they're a little grittier. They're like, we're whatever. It's like, I call them for like, junk food dreams. But there's other dreams that I can tell it's a deeper fear or trauma or experience that hasn't been processed.
Unknown Speaker 16:50
Do you feel like there's some value to these dreams
Speaker 2 16:55
for me? Some, yeah, I think for me, because I remember them so they they're a peek at what my mind is up to. Sometimes just go through the day and be like, okay, clearly, I dreamt about this water bottle because I was playing it today. Or, you know, it's a bit of like this, like filing away and just like letting it go and then other stuff. Other times, it's showing me something that hasn't been processed. I can't let it go because it hasn't been processed, or it's haunting me, but so it, but it doesn't, you know, those ones tend to be the recurring ones, or they have a thematic and I don't think it's so much what happens in the dream, as much as how I feel about it.
Speaker 1 17:35
Totally. That's pretty neat. It sounds like you're you get to be present for this whole filing of the day? Yes, that's why. I think that's what dreams are. I've heard this statement anyway, like you're basically running through the day's observations, filing memory and getting rid of necessary things. But I've had a few dreams. I think these are pretty cool, pretty valuable, where I'm, like, solving a problem for the future. Those ones, I remember, some are just fantastic as well. I'm, like, in a pirate ship, and I find gold, and it's super fun. And I want a whole lot of those, but I generally don't. But there was when I was afraid of public speaking. I still am someone like getting over. And I remember having dreams kind of reoccurring of me speaking on the stage. Yeah, they felt very real, like I was on the stage and there was some sort of presentation required a lot of people. And then I was people would clap after it was like this, I was getting positive reinforcement in my dreams for doing a supposed presentation. There was no real topic. It was just me on stage. On stage and clapping. And I don't know, in my mind, I like, well, positive reinforcement is generally good if you're trying to learn something, and I'm just dreaming up some positive reinforcement. Like, what a great tool. That's amazing. I know that's great. I don't know how to do that more often, but Job brain, yeah. But I'm curious if your dreams, maybe you're trying to do the same thing. You're to observe some traumatic experience. I mean, reoccurring the trauma is not great, but maybe you're helping yourself find a solution.
Speaker 2 19:10
I think for me, it's how I feel about our fate, like I do read into them, like I said, there's different I don't just dream. I have different types of dreams that do different things. So when I I didn't try to lucid dream, but when I started lucid dreaming, that also changed the game. And I tried, in lucid dreaming to try to do the things to get out of the lucid dreaming, and they didn't
Unknown Speaker 19:30
work. And I was red.
Speaker 2 19:33
I then later, because I started getting them, I was like, What the hell? And I've had the dream where I like, I woke up again and again and again and again I had Inception dreams. And I knew it, and I would wake up and I do something and like, Yeah, I had Inception dreams could be scary. That one was because I was trying to run from something. And I was in those ones, I was like, Come on, wake up. Epic. Yeah, fine. I'm sick. Oh, wake up.
Speaker 1 19:59
And then. It was just like, Did you run? I have had these recurrence where I can't run. My legs are like, steel or something. They just like, they just, they don't move as fast as I want.
Speaker 2 20:10
Well, my dream last night, I could run. Okay, my dream last night. And this is, I know what this is. This is showing me a fear. So funny thing is, I'm actually walking pretty, like I'm progressing really well. I'm a good healer. When I come to it, like I actually I'm pretty in touch my body, I was not in good state the last while, and I really worked on it to get here. But I'm kind of fragile, like I'm really, really particular about who I let my life like right now, as I'm healing, right? I have to be. But last night's dream, I was in some place, and there was, like a party, and there's someone actually didn't know, but was getting no and there's like, friends, and, you know, we were all in a penthouse, or, like, up high, and in a in a apartment building or something. I think there's a bit of a party or something going on, and I'm sitting somewhere, like a soft couch or bed or something, and I still, and steal a bunch of police come in, and they're looking at the ceiling. I'm like, Is there a problem? Like, no nothing, no problem. And they start shooting in the ceiling. I was like, Is there something going they're like, no, no, it's fine. I'm like, This doesn't feel fine. And I go around and there's just more and more people coming in. They're looking like, talking to each other. I was like, what's going on? They're like, unique out now. I'm like, Ah. And so people are I start telling people, and people are going, is that I look down and I can't find my crutches and I can't move my leg, and there's, they start shooting and I can't move, and I look down to my other side some of these really long stairs, that is ultimately my fear of you know what's happening? Like being named, I can't run and I can't fight.
Unknown Speaker 21:55
This is your biggest concern. You want to be a fighter.
Speaker 2 21:58
So I want to survive, a survivor. I want to survive. I would like to get thrown a thriver. But in this case, like one of the things about having my knee or happy in the state, and when I was healing my other knee, it was, there was some trauma with that and but, you know, recently, there's some other things that's been happening that, whether they're actual, risks or dangers or not they feel like it. But, you know, I want to be able to, like, physically, we have this need to run and fight. I'm luckily to be in a home where I feel safe. I don't really need to. But instinctively, my brain, my body's like, fuck, we need to get back. Lady, like we need person. We need get back on track. Because you to survive in this world, you need to run and fight. So I actually wonder how much my healing is, a bit of a warrior in me being like, get back up there. I don't actually know if I need to heal. Like, to walk this fast. I don't know if it's actually good that I'm pushing myself to walk more, because it isn't that it's not painful. So maybe it slowed down, but it I was thinking about this today, is like, Why are you pushing this progress? Is even good to purchase progress. It outwardly looks good. But then I realized, I was like, had this dream. I was like, it's because I'm scared. I can't run or fight if something bad happens.
Speaker 1 23:18
You want to be mobile as fast as possible, but that might not actually create the best long term outcome. You got all the data. So I do have all the data between, like, what feels good and what the data tells you, yeah,
Speaker 2 23:34
and I'm like, I'm definitely someone who I like, know this about myself. I'm strong and I'm a warrior, but right now I don't want to have to be strong. I don't want like, where I need to be able to settle what's healthy for me right now is like having peace, having rest, having healthy people around me who are supportive, and I don't have to fight, I don't have to question their
Unknown Speaker 24:00
like shit. So I should bring you some tea.
Speaker 2 24:03
Actually, I was like, oh, I should probably. So people, you know what's really cute, people have brought me a lot of stew. Yeah, you're saying it's been really endearing. I should have made that soup earlier. No, no. Well, I can't eat anyways, it's okay. We have plenty of stew. So I'll like, finish icing, finish up this and let's make some stew. But anyways, I have 24 minutes. Thank you for.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
